It seems to me that people who think it is ok for a Christian to vote for Obama are seriously twisting scripture and taking them out of context. I believe that if they do vote for Obama then they will give an account for the blood of every unborn baby murdered in its mother’s womb, as well as for every abominable lifestyle they unwittingly endorse with their vote.
It is kind of like Judges 17:5-11 today in that we live in a land of many gods, and we have turned our backs on the one true God, and we have sold out to the first person that offered us a handout. we have sold out to Planned Parenthood, and the GLBT community. All for some Food Stamps, some Social Security, and a College Education. We are like the Levite who turned aside and worked for Micha for Ten Shekels and a shirt.
It seems like your understanding of political theory and theology is very shallow. Do you want a theocracy or a representative democracy? Do you believe all sin should be made illegal? What about adultery? Premarital sex? Worshiping false idols?
Political theory and theology can be distinct categories. Jesus recognized that, why can’t you?
[For the record: I like neither presidential candidate. Both approve of a government that is too dominating in multiple areas.]
First of all to say that Jesus didn’t get involved in Politics is rediculous. 1. He confronted the politics of the church when he overturned the money changers tables and 2. He stood before the San Hedron and Pontius Pilot the most powerful political rulers of the day. He told us (Future Tense) to not be afraid when we are taken before Kings, and Priests and Political Rulers of the day, because the Holy Spirit will give us the words to speak in that day and in that very same hour.
I believe that we are a Republic. Not a true Democracy. If you read the writings of America’s Founding Fathers they believed that we were supposed to elect and prefer Christians as our rulers, and that you should not even call yourself an American if you subvert the Word of God.
What I mean by studying History, you learn that pretty much every Society that has ever fallen has done so because of immorality. For example Greed, Abortion, Homosexuality, Witchcraft, Sorcery, Idolatry. No matter what Civilization you look at, there was some kind of moral flaw that caused their ultimate demise.
Sorry, but politics of the church and politics of the state are very different areas. Jesus also abide by the government he was under (a non-christian government) and told others to do the same. To explain what I mean by “abided”: Jesus did not promote the idea that you should sin if the government commands you too, but he did not promote revolution in those instances–rather, it seems like passive disobedience (with accepting the consequences) seems most in line with the message. Jesus also recognized the legitimacy of a non-christian government (“Render unto Caesar..”). The idea that imperfect men rule the governments of the earth is completely consistent with God being supreme. Jesus did not promote the idea of theocracy–God gave up on that in the old testament.
Many founding fathers were deists. This is not a controversial statement. Thoughts on having deists as your representative? And regardless of what type of religion the founding fathers wanted leaders to espouse–how does that support the idea that we should be a theocracy?
As to your last point: Breaking news–all empires eventually crumble. Also breaking news–all empires contain moral flaws. You gotta support your causation argument more if you want this sort of argument to have any credibility. (It is interesting that you have gone from trying to find scriptural support to a purely consequentialist argument.)
@whataboutbahb - All 56 of the Founding Fathers who signed the united States Constitution were Christian. Only 2 were Deists. They were Benjamin Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson. Deist does not mean non-christian. It just means that their view of God was more like that of a clockmaker who created everything and just stepped back not intervening in the lives and affairs of men. I wouldn’t mind having a Deist as a Representative at all. The majority of the Founding Father’s were however active members of their church as well.
We disagree. I believe that we are supposed to render unto Ceasar the things that belong to Caesar, until Caesar goes against the Bible and uses our tax money to fund Abortion, and pay for other peoples Contraceptives.
Go back and read some of my old blogs. I have done the research, and posted all the scriptures.
It is just like my Brother, the mess the Assemblies are in with Homo style preachers and teachers, and how can the “so-called” preachers be saved or those that think it is ok to have them in the preaching office. What I think, is they think they are saved because they live in a Religious nation. But not true. Bro. Doc
If you consider Thomas Jefferson a christian, you have a very odd definition of what a christian is. Same for many other founding fathers. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#Deism_in_the_United_States Being an active member of a church does not necessarily mean someone is a christian.
And no. You are twisting scripture regarding the Ceasar quote. The jews were a conquered people!!! Yet Jesus was telling them to still respect authority! Their taxes were being used to oppress themselves! You don’t think they had legitimate reasons to not respect the Roman government? Christianity has a meekness to it that you seem to completely lack. You are not more special than jews being oppressed by Romans.
Comments (10)
Can we really Brother, say they are saved, and voted for Obama and what he stand for? I think not!!! Bro. Doc
@BroDoc -
Personally, I agree Brother. I don’t know how someone could be saved and vote for Obama.
@derekwilson24 -
It seems like your understanding of political theory and theology is very shallow. Do you want a theocracy or a representative democracy? Do you believe all sin should be made illegal? What about adultery? Premarital sex? Worshiping false idols?
Political theory and theology can be distinct categories. Jesus recognized that, why can’t you?
[For the record: I like neither presidential candidate. Both approve of a government that is too dominating in multiple areas.]
@whataboutbahb -
Because I have studied History.
@derekwilson24 -
For any sort of conversation to develop, you’re going to have to expound a little on that idea.
@whataboutbahb -
First of all to say that Jesus didn’t get involved in Politics is rediculous. 1. He confronted the politics of the church when he overturned the money changers tables and 2. He stood before the San Hedron and Pontius Pilot the most powerful political rulers of the day. He told us (Future Tense) to not be afraid when we are taken before Kings, and Priests and Political Rulers of the day, because the Holy Spirit will give us the words to speak in that day and in that very same hour.
I believe that we are a Republic. Not a true Democracy. If you read the writings of America’s Founding Fathers they believed that we were supposed to elect and prefer Christians as our rulers, and that you should not even call yourself an American if you subvert the Word of God.
What I mean by studying History, you learn that pretty much every Society that has ever fallen has done so because of immorality. For example Greed, Abortion, Homosexuality, Witchcraft, Sorcery, Idolatry. No matter what Civilization you look at, there was some kind of moral flaw that caused their ultimate demise.
@derekwilson24 -
Sorry, but politics of the church and politics of the state are very different areas. Jesus also abide by the government he was under (a non-christian government) and told others to do the same. To explain what I mean by “abided”: Jesus did not promote the idea that you should sin if the government commands you too, but he did not promote revolution in those instances–rather, it seems like passive disobedience (with accepting the consequences) seems most in line with the message. Jesus also recognized the legitimacy of a non-christian government (“Render unto Caesar..”). The idea that imperfect men rule the governments of the earth is completely consistent with God being supreme. Jesus did not promote the idea of theocracy–God gave up on that in the old testament.
Many founding fathers were deists. This is not a controversial statement. Thoughts on having deists as your representative? And regardless of what type of religion the founding fathers wanted leaders to espouse–how does that support the idea that we should be a theocracy?
As to your last point: Breaking news–all empires eventually crumble. Also breaking news–all empires contain moral flaws. You gotta support your causation argument more if you want this sort of argument to have any credibility. (It is interesting that you have gone from trying to find scriptural support to a purely consequentialist argument.)
@whataboutbahb -
All 56 of the Founding Fathers who signed the united States Constitution were Christian. Only 2 were Deists. They were Benjamin Franklin, and Thomas Jefferson. Deist does not mean non-christian. It just means that their view of God was more like that of a clockmaker who created everything and just stepped back not intervening in the lives and affairs of men. I wouldn’t mind having a Deist as a Representative at all. The majority of the Founding Father’s were however active members of their church as well.
We disagree. I believe that we are supposed to render unto Ceasar the things that belong to Caesar, until Caesar goes against the Bible and uses our tax money to fund Abortion, and pay for other peoples Contraceptives.
Go back and read some of my old blogs. I have done the research, and posted all the scriptures.
It is just like my Brother, the mess the Assemblies are in with Homo style preachers and teachers, and how can the “so-called” preachers be saved or those that think it is ok to have them in the preaching office.
What I think, is they think they are saved because they live in a Religious nation. But not true. Bro. Doc
@derekwilson24 -
If you consider Thomas Jefferson a christian, you have a very odd definition of what a christian is. Same for many other founding fathers. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#Deism_in_the_United_States Being an active member of a church does not necessarily mean someone is a christian.
And no. You are twisting scripture regarding the Ceasar quote. The jews were a conquered people!!! Yet Jesus was telling them to still respect authority! Their taxes were being used to oppress themselves! You don’t think they had legitimate reasons to not respect the Roman government? Christianity has a meekness to it that you seem to completely lack. You are not more special than jews being oppressed by Romans.