July 29, 2008
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Should Gay and Lesbian couples be allowed to adopt?
Check out this link on SapphirerRains site on the topic:
My Comments on sapphirerains site: I believe in the Holy Bible and that it is the Holy, infallible, written word of God, therefore I believe that Homosexuality and Lesbianism, or Bisexuality is an Abomination because it says so. Romans chapter 1 is a good example of this. I do not believe that Gay and Lesbian couples should be allowed to marry, to adopt, or any of the other rights given to the God instituted marriages talked about in Genesis chapters one and two of One man and One Woman. The Bible talks a lot about how we (Christians) are to live and has some good rules and guidelines that help all of humanity Saved or Unsaved. I am a Christian and I really don’t have anything against those who are not, but I think that a Gay or Lesbian couple adopting a child is going to cause confusion in that young childs life and cause them to grow up in an unnatural way. Who knows the scope of the consequences of that?
Here’s the exchange about gay adoption from The New York Times interview with John McCain on the subject and I tend to agree with him.:
Q: President Bush believes that gay couples should not be permitted to adopt children. Do you agree with that?
Mr. McCain: I think that we’ve proven that both parents are important in the success of a family so, no I don’t believe in gay adoption.
Q: Even if the alternative is the kid staying in an orphanage, or not having parents.
Mr. McCain: I encourage adoption and I encourage the opportunities for people to adopt children I encourage the process being less complicated so they can adopt as quickly as possible. And Cindy and I are proud of being adoptive parents.
Q: But your concern would be that the couple should a traditional couple
Mr. McCain: Yes.
Conservative Christians are the whole reason that Bush got elected. So I think that that tells me there are more people that think like I do than you guys let on. That is why McCain will get elected. Because people still vote based on moral conviction, on what is right and what is wrong according to the Bible.
Romans 1:24-32 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
What do you think, should gay and lesbian couples be allowed to adopt?
Comments (41)
I think the best environment for a child to grow up is with a loving mother and father.
What she said, but I do feel without compromise we can still love the sinner , not the sin. My heart cries out for the WHOLE situation gay couples put themselves in to. They let an un-natural, unchecked desires burn until it feels natural, thus in the process fall in love. In this their natural desires for family fight against the un-natural, the in-abilitiy to bare children naturally. The whole thing is just sad & I think the people that think they should have full rights as a natural couple, feel that way bc they see their love & wants for a good life that include a family. All so utterly sad… my heart goes out to them still, though I do not think that environment is suitable for raising children nor in God’s will.
@Made2sing4Jesus - nice word! that is not the way we should raise our children. I pray that God would bring them to repentance.
Agreed. And I’m sure we’ve all read the blogpost about the story regarding the social worker and the child and so on and so forth. But in the end, as harsh as our views may seem, Made2sing4Jesus has pretty much summed it. They’ve indoctrinicated society and our children into believing that this “love” they have for someone of the same sex is natural. It isn’t. Clearly, it isn’t. It cannot be. The Lord had not created it as such. Especially not if you must do so much just in order to reproduce, it cannot be natural! And I truly wish more people would come to this understanding, to me it’s as simple as logic: If the puzzles don’t fit, obviously they weren’t meant to. Forcing them to isn’t making it natural, there’s still so much missing from the pieces, you won’t see the whole picture.
Thanks for posting this and also for posting the bit about McCain. I’ve been iffy on whether I should vote or not, considering my pick wasn’t the candidate for the GOP. It’s always nice ot hear something from about current nominees.
There is no evidence to show that children raised by LGBT parents are any more negatively affected than children raised by heterosexual parents. If LGBT couples want to adopt, let them.
I believe that children should grow up with their parents- a mother and a father. I pray for the gay and lesbian couples to be enlightened. May they repent to God and change their ways. God bless!
@QuantumStorm - :wha: How about if the Child was a born again Christian before it was placed with the Same Sex couple, They are obviously not Born Again Christians because they are living the lifestyle of sin described above (Romans 1).
Anyway you look at it, Gay, Lesbian, or Bisexual relationships are an abomination to God.
Children growing up need a good role model, parents that love each other naturally the way that God intended in Genesis 1&2.
I love how people base their whole view of gay adoption on gay people, and not children. You claim it would cause a child confusion. How many children have you come across, raised, or witnessed that have not been confused at one point in their childhood? How about the child living with a single mother, would he/she not be confused about where their father is? More importantly, how many children do you know that were raised by an LGBT couple? I would venture to guess little to none…because the small fact exists that it isn’t illegal.
Using the confusion of children (unproven and with little bearing) is merely something for you to hide behind. To use to justify your willingness to not let loving, capable would-be parents help in providing a child the right to a loving home. This isn’t about gay rights. It’s about children’s rights. So when you come up with a viable study that shows me that somehow children raised by LGBT couples are more confused than children raised in broken, single-parent, or traditional heterosexual homes give me a ring. Until then, your “point” means nothing.
I, personally, was raised by two loving heterosexual parents. And gasp* I turned out gay! And a lot of the time…I was confused about my sexuality, about religion, about any thing under the sun, because that’s when you learn, your childhood. Learning how the world works is confusing. For me, one of the hardest things that I’ve tried to learn is how so many people justify their bigotry using the Bible. I still can’t grasp it.
Maybe you could help?
No. Homosexuals being allowed to adopt is one more weapon in how the homosexual comunity and their agenda are destroying the fabric of the US of A by redefinition of the family….
@UberGoobah - Yes, its not illegal but there are several bills trying to ban Gays and Lesbians from adopting.
On Gay adoption being harmful to children:
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April 12, 2002, 9:55 a.m.
Is Gay Adoption Harmful?
Moving behind the gay-adoption headlinesBennett.
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NRO’s Kathryn Jean Lopez interviews Robert Lerner, a social-science researcher and co-author of the book No Basis: What the Studies Don’t Tell Us About Same Sex Parenting, a study commissioned by the Marriage Law Project.
“Lopez: Is same-sex parenting harmful to kids?
Lerner: In my opinion there is as yet no definitive answer to this question, even apart from the question of what is meant by “harm.” For example, many would say that if children raised in these families were more likely to grow up gay or lesbian, that this in itself would be harmful. Others might not agree, but I would be surprised if most Americans would be neutral at the prospect of their own children becoming gay or lesbian.
There is some evidence that growing up with homosexual parents increases the likelihood of sexual promiscuity, experimentation, and homosexual sexual experience. If sexual preference is at least in part learned, this is to be expected. There is also a large literature indicating that gender nonconformity growing up leads to an increased likelihood of developing a homosexual orientation as an adult. I would speculate that same-sex adoption would likely lead to a greater experimentation with gender nonconformity and a greater likelihood of producing gays and lesbian adults than would heterosexual adoption.
Next, there is the evidence on the relative instability of same-sex relationships with its evident effects on the stability of children’s relationships.
Finally, there is evidence that homosexuality, male or female, is associated with adjustment problem such as depression, anxiety disorders, alcohol and drug abuse, and attempts at suicide and, of course, there is the risk for gay men of venereal disease including but not limited to AIDS.
It is not too large a stretch to conclude at least tentatively that high degrees of: family instability, sexual-orientation confusion, parental emotional problems including higher rates of mental illness, higher risk of disease from high rates of sexual promiscuity, may make gays and lesbians less fit as parents than heterosexuals, other things being equal. ” End of qoute.
I personally dont believe someone as you put it “Turns out Gay.” I believe that it is a willful and conscious decision, to go against nature and do that which God said :nono: is SIN. It doesnt mean that I have anything against you or anyone else, and I wouldnt treat you any different. As a matter of fact I have known people brought up by GL couples and I got along with them just fine.You see as a Christian I am in a war, to walk upright and righteous before a Holy God that loves all of us. That is why he gave us the Bible, to keep us from sinning. Sin leads to Death and God wants us to live forever. All I am doing is spreading the word.
:yes: Maybe I could if you were willing.
@UberGoobah - I also agree that it should be all about the children.
Great minds think alike! Here is another blog on the same topic.
http://www.xanga.com/JandJinJapan/668320769/a-response-to-sapphirerain–how-do-you-feel-about-adoption-by-same-sex-couples.html?nextdate=last&leftcmt=1
@UberGoobah - I wonder if this is because you do not believe the Bible should be believed, whether we agree with Him or not. If you believe the Bible, then it does not matter what you feel; it matters what you do with faith in God. We have an option to rebel, but we cannot call it obedience. As Derek points out: it IS about what is best for the child.
@pb49r - For some reason your comment was invisible until I highlighted it.
(Watching) for our Blessed Hope, Jesus Christ to Rapture us to the New Jerusalem(Heaven) (Blessed) are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find (watching) as shared in Proverbs 8:34, Luke 12:37, and Revelation 16:15 We are told many Times in the Bible to WATCH, and Notice Revelation 3:3 Shares those who are not Watching, He will come like a Thief. Now is the Time to Watch for King Jesus Christ, and Love his Appearing! Infact if you Love his Appearing (Rapture) you will receive a Special Crown! as Shared in 2 Timothy 4:8
*The Rapture will be a Miracle! Every Nano Second until the Rapture is ushered forth in our Atmosphere, and after the Rapture is ushered, you will see more, and more of what is written in Bible Prophecy come true, as foretold in the Holy Bible!
*You have now entered the Season in Time known as the Last Days(As The Days of Noah) and the Rapture is the Next BIG event on the Prophecy Calendar. Are you Ready? I am.
Rapture Prophecy: http://www.raptureprophecy.com
“Be fruitful and multiply” was God’s first command.
@jesusrapture - :yes: Yeshuah, (Jesus Christ) is coming back a second time and yes I am ready. :goodjob:
@pb49r -
It is what he feels is best for a child based on his view of the Bible. Is it not? If every Christian interpreted the Bible in the same manner, I doubt there would be nearly as many denominations as there are. I’m an abomination, not because he knows me, or because he has any bearing to say it, but because I love a man. That’s a book that preaches some serious love right there. And uh, we don’t live in a theocracy. The Bible should have little or nothing to do with this conversation.
@derekwilson24 -
How did I learn to be a homosexual? With my heterosexual parents popping out nine children, living in the deep south where I know everyone would hate me if I even admit I thought about it? With the heterosexual institution of marriage that fails as often as it succeeds, there isn’t much room to be talking about instability either.
I don’t believe I turned out gay either. I was just smart enough and ready, through all my confusion, to admit it. I chose to be gay the exact same day you chose to be straight. That was …when? Oh, right, probably never. I think you’ll find very few people willingly sign up for the intolerance that comes along with openly loving someone of the same sex.
@JandJinJapan -
Lol. The Gay Agenda? That’s so…1998. But if equality is on that particular agenda, sign me up.
@UberGoobah - The hmosexual community and their agenda are a lot like the devil and his plans – neither wants people to think they are dangerous, until its too late.
@JandJinJapan -
Equality is dangerous to you? If you think the homosexual agenda is the most threatening thing in this world, you seriously need to open your eyes and take a look around.
Wow, Derek… my heart is always crushed with tension on this subject. There was an Episode of “30 Days” on the FX Network that was about this very subject. I do not agree that homosexuality is right by any means; however, I have a terribly hard time to say that children would be better off staying in Foster homes than being raised by a gay couple. My only problem would be if the child was made to think of it as completely normal.. like if the child grew up and the parents would not listen to the child if the child disagreed with the lifestyle.
Does any of this make sense? I struggle not with the morality of homosexuality but with the morality of leaving children in horrible situations of Foster homes/care. If they have a chance at something better then maybe God can use those people to care for this child unlike a foster home ever would…
Man, I just dont know.. this issue pains me. I suppose, I would feel much more comfortable if Christians would have one table aginst this bill and everyone who signed agianst homosexuals adopting were required to put theer own name down on another list for adoptions. I think that would truly show the love of Christ and make a point, rather than just saying homosexuals cannot – it would show that we walk our talk, we are willing to sacrifice for our beliefs. That we do not just react against immorality but are acting out our own morality, trying to share love with others.
Am i alone in this? Does anyone feel any tension? I have trouble “throwing stones” at either side… almost as if Jesus is not only telling the homosexuals not to sin anymore – but telling passive Christians to sin no more, when they are active in word but not in deed.
Obedience, Servant-hood, and Sacrfice
.. alongside faith, hope, and love.
Great blog Derek
~ Daniel
@derekwilson24 - //How about if the Child was a born again Christian before it was placed with the Same Sex couple, They are obviously not Born Again Christians because they are living the lifestyle of sin described above (Romans 1). //
What about it? If they aren’t BAC’s, how would that affect the salvation of the child, which is determined by God’s grace and not the family of the child?
//Children growing up need a good role model, parents that love each other naturally the way that God intended in Genesis 1&2. //
There is no evidence to support that homosexual parents are any less capable role models than heterosexual parents. If you have evidence, please provide it.
I agree with Made2sing4Jesus ‘s reply. Just on a note of foster homes…..unless they are different to here in the UK. My hubby and I were hoping to foster, but felt God closing the doors when the council had a problem with us attending church and wanted us to stay at home if the child didn’t want to go to church!!!!!!!!!!
@QuantumStorm -
I guess you do not believe the Bible, No?
@Doubledb - I agree 100%. Sign me up. :coolman:
@Neeka1 - Wow! Yeah, I dont think they are that restrictive here in the US yet.
Hmmm.. thanks my friend. Not sure why I can’t see you post though?? Thanks for stopping by. God bless!
Phil
He never answered the question: “Even if the alternative is the kid staying in an orphanage, or not having parents.”
He flip-flops and dodges all those moral issues, trying to mince words so as not to offend the religious right. He would do nothing to stop gay-lesbian adoption, so this is a non-issue in the election.
I have seen video of him saying gay-lesbian marriage ceremonies are OK, but within minutes when the question was framed slightly differently, said, no, he didn’t think the state should recognize them, but it was a state issue, not a national one. With such equivocation, if you vote for him on this issue, you get nothing. So, no, I would not promote your site for raising this issue, because it’s a waste of time.
I respond only in hopes you will see you’re running down a blind alley and redirect your focus on something fruitful.
@HaigLaw - The point of this blog was not to promote John McCain, but to discuss whether or not Gay and Lesbians should be allowed to adopt children. I believe that they should not because:
1. The Bible clearly says that Homosexuality and Lesbianism are an Abomination = Bad Sin Quite Frankly I dont need another reason than this one.
2. It harms the childrens psycy. Many grow up to be Gay or Lesbian and think that its ok or acceptable when it is not. They become confused, fight depression and many times have identity crisis’ or commit suicide.
3. It is obviously not natural.
I will vote for McCain however. Obama wants to pass the Matthew Shepard Hate Crime Bill and force all of us Christians to shut up. Like they did in Canada. I am not for that. At all.
http://www.matthewshepard.org/site/PageServer?pagename=Erase_Hate_Crimes_Legislation
Obama on issues: http://www.barackobama.com/issues/
McCain on issues: http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/
@derekwilson24 - Oh, on the contrary, I do believe in the Bible. But I also believe people are free to make certain decisions about their lives.
There is no evidence to suggest children are in any more harm in homosexual families than in heterosexual families (physical, mental, or spiritual). Do I believe homosexuals should marry? They can if they want – but it’s not a valid sacramental marriage – it’s the equivalent of a legal union. If those children were in harm’s way I would support prohibition of gay adoption.
So, I will repeat the request you ignored. If you have any evidence to show that children are in harm’s way moreso than in heterosexual families, by all means do so, instead of playing God by saying “oh you don’t believe in the Bible or person B does or person C doesn’t.”
@QuantumStorm - I am glad to hear that you believe in the Bible. As long as there is a majority of Christians in our Nation and in our Government I think that according to scripture it is our moral duty to stand politically on our moral convictions, and to be led by God. There is a song by Keith Green called “No Compromise” you should listen to it. I think I have it on my playlist player. Anyway, havent you ever heard that a little leaven, leavens the whole lump? If we accept SIN in our culture and it becomes mainstream, I guess God will just destroy us like he did Sodom and Gomarrah, Ebed and Edom, or the Roman Empire. Compromise is never ok. It is never ok to sit by and say ”If it happens, It happens.” We will all be judged according to our works, our words, and our thoughts.
Re the study you missed. (posted above): NRO’s Kathryn Jean Lopez interviews Robert Lerner, a social-science researcher and co-author of the book No Basis: What the Studies Don’t Tell Us About Same Sex Parenting, a study commissioned by the Marriage Law Project.
@derekwilson24 - //Anyway, havent you ever heard that a little leaven, leavens the whole lump? If we accept SIN in our culture and it becomes mainstream, I guess God will just destroy us like he did Sodom and Gomarrah, Ebed and Edom, or the Roman Empire.//
By your argument, anyone who commits a sin ought to be deported from our nation. Would you argue, next, that Muslims and other non-Christian couples shouldn’t be allowed to adopt children as well? The point is, there is no indication that children in such families are any more in danger than those in heterosexual families. Do I think homosexuals are committing a sin by marrying? Yes – but it is not my position to force them to do otherwise. Can I educate them about our teachings? Yes. Can I point out their errors? Yes. But to force them, against their free will that is given to each of us, is itself sinful. I cannot force a person to do the right thing – that robs the free-will aspect of being virtuous.
Your link is broken.
//Compromise is never ok. It is never ok to sit by and say ”If it happens, It happens.” We will all be judged according to our works, our words, and our thoughts. //
I never said compromise was acceptable. I don’t think, for instance, that my Church’s positions on homosexuality and gay marriage should change. But I cannot force a person to conform to my beliefs – unless their actions endanger the lives of others. It’s important not to compromise on one’s beliefs – but it’s also important not to rob others of free will. One of the prices we pay for letting others enjoy free will is that they also have the freedom to commit sin. But when we rob them of their ability to freely choose to do good OR evil, we are, in essence, playing Satan, who also robs people of their free will as they slowly succumb to their vices. Note that at no time in the Gospels did Jesus ever force anyone to follow Him.
Back to my comment on Muslims and other non-Christians, though – if you’re worried about homosexuals, why not non-Christians? Why single out just homosexuals?
@derekwilson24 - Oh, and your link to the study is broken. Do you have another link? Thanks.
@QuantumStorm - They had pretty strict law enforcement in the Old Testament. I suppose that kept down Sin. If we did legislate Gods law, and enforced it like we do any other law, we wouldnt have to worry about it. That is what I believe. Then if the minority doesnt like it, they can go somewhere else. We should never subvert the word of God, and accept Sin and tell others that their lifestyle is ok and acceptable when it is not. Sin is Sin, whether it be Homosexuality, Idolotry, Murder, Adultery, Lust, whatever.
Re: the link was broken. I cut copied and pasted the whole thing in a comment above. You just have to look for it on this blog.
@derekwilson24 - Huh?! Since when does a person’s (or a child’s) Born Again “status” become contingent on the rest of the people in his/her home??? I don’t know about you, but I am thankful that my salvation is not contingent on what those around me may choose to do! What an UNbiblical ideology!!
Also wanted to add:
While I am not exactly in support of gay adoptions (basically due to concerns I have regarding the type of family role model that would be presented)… Let’s not forget, we are ALL SINNERS. Every single person who has ever adopted a child has sinned, and will continue to sin, until Judgement Day. Gay-ness is not the only sin out there.
Also, I never could understand why gov’t would be opposed to gay adoptions (or gay marriages/unions for that matter) I can understand why the church would not want to perform a gay marriage/union but the fact that government has so much control, so much so that they can restrict someone’s adoption based on the one’s sexual orientation, or prohibit marriage because of same sex is actually SCARY to me!! What’s next–gov’t gets to decide that interracial couples cannot adopt? That interracial couples cannot marry? That children MUST go to school and homeschooling is illegal? That it is against the law and a ‘danger to society’ or ‘neglect’ in any and all cases where children are not ‘properly’ immunized??? I am not a fan of gov’t having that much say over what goes on in my home…..and I realize that while the gay ‘issues’ may just-so-happen to be similar to my views, at the same time, IDEALLY gov’t wouldn’t have any say in this matter at all. Sure we can all sit here and say “yay gov’t!!” when they ban gay marriages or gay adoptions…..but what about when they ban something that affects YOU (not vaxing, homeschooling, going to CHURCH??) Oy!!! Think outside the box for a minute and realize that this isn’t just about ‘gay adoptions’ (or marriages or whatever)–rather it is about the amount of CONTROL our gov’t has over us!! Scary thought people!! (and I am not a conspiracy theorist either)
@Snugglebunnymama - Please read all of the comments on my blog, get a better understanding of what I believe and then comment. Thank you.
Question: Since when does a person’s (or a child’s) Born Again “status” become contingent on the rest of the people in his/her home???
I Timothy 4:12 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.
Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.
Proverbs 22:15 Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.
My Answer: A child needs an example, a role model, a Godly Father and a Godly Mother to bring them up the way God wants them to. How can a child become born again if they do not have that? If they do not have a proper upbringing how can they be expected to not be like their role models? On this we agree.
I also agree that ”we are ALL SINNERS.” but why did Jesus say be ye therefore perfect even as my Father in Heaven is perfect? Because that is his WILL for our lives.
On the government thing I guess I will just cut, copy, and paste my reply to Quantumstorm on here: They had pretty strict law enforcement in the Old Testament. I suppose that kept down Sin. If we did legislate Gods law, and enforced it like we do any other law, we wouldnt have to worry about it. That is what I believe. Then if the minority doesnt like it, they can go somewhere else. We should never subvert the word of God, and accept Sin and tell others that their lifestyle is ok and acceptable when it is not. Sin is Sin, whether it be Homosexuality, Idolotry, Murder, Adultery, Lust, whatever.
@derekwilson24 -
I spent 3 decades in the religious right and have paid my dues to say the “pro-life plank” in the Republican platform is a fraud upon us Christians, and they could care less about the so-called “moral issues” you are pushing. They are just bait to keep Christians like hyou and me voting their way. But I have seen the light. I hate to see young guys like you waste your energies, but when you’re in teacher mode instead of learner mode, it’s hard to assimmilate the wisdom of gray hairs.
@HaigLaw - If you would be willing to share more of your “Wisdom of Gray hairs” I would be willing to listen.
@derekwilson24 -
Ok, but private email only.
@derekwilson24 - //They had pretty strict law enforcement in the Old Testament. I suppose that kept down Sin. //
Can you prove that statement?
// If we did legislate Gods law, and enforced it like we do any other law, we wouldnt have to worry about it. That is what I believe. Then if the minority doesnt like it, they can go somewhere else.//
In other words, would it be accurate to describe you as a Dominionist?