August 20, 2007
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Backsliding Possible?
There are many scriptures that show that it is very possible to lose one’s salvation. I believe that the only way to know that you are always saved is if you are always Holy and Pure before God.
Matthew 7:21-29 He will say to many, depart from me you who work iniquity. Matthew 10:28 God has power to throw us into hell.
Matthew 16:24-26 Can gain the whole world and lose your soul.
Matthew 18:3 Except we become as little children we cannot enter heaven. Matthew 18:11-14 Possible for sheep to go astray.
Matthew 21:43 Kingdom of God taken from us and given to those who have fruit. Matthew 22:14 Many called but few chosen.
Matthew 23 Jesus preaching to hypocrites.
Matthew 25:31-46 Sheep and the goats 46. Righteous shall inherit everlasting life.
Luke 14:16-35 Parable of the supper, unless you forsake everything you cannot be my disciple.
Luke 16:20-31 Lazarus and the Rich man (literal hell, not a parable)
Luke 18:14 He that exalteth himself will be abased
Luke 21:34-36 Be holy pray that you will escape the things to come.
John 3:3-6 Except a man be born again, and of water and of spirit, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
John 11:9-10 Possible to stumble?
John 12:26 Whoever abide in Jesus does not abide in darkness.
John 15:1-14 Jesus is the true vine, those that abide in him produce much good fruit.
Romans 2:1-16 Not hearers but doers will be justified before God. God will judge the secrets of men.
Romans 3 We are able to obtain righteousness through Jesus.
Romans 6 Newness of life & Freedom from sin.
Romans 8:5-8 Those that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Romans 12:1 Present your bodies a living sacrifice Holy and acceptable to God.
I corinthians 1:8 Be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
I Corinthians 3:17 If you destroy God’s temple he will destroy you.
I Corinthians 6:9-10 Unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
18-20 Glorify God in your body.
II Corinthians 4 We are to be light and not darkness, so that Jesus can be manifested in and through us.
II Corinthians 5:17 We are to be a new creature old things are passed away behold all things become new.
Comments (19)
I want to re-read all of these scriptures tonight after I get home. But let me ask you this. Salvation is a FREE gift from God. Scripture tells us we cannot earn it or else we would be able to boast about and go around Heaven saying, “I was good enough to make it here”. God wanted everyone to know that we are unworthy to the point that we cannot make it to Heaven UNLESS we accept His free gift of salvation. So my question is this. If we cannot make it to Heaven through works, or trying to obtain Holiness here on Earth, and we accept the free gift of salvation by accepting Christ, how could it be that we could lose that free gift and then we could earn it back by being holy? Would that not allow us to be boastful about our salvation? Another question is, if God gives us something for free, does it make sense that if can be taken away unless we act a certain way? That would be a “conditional” gift, not unconditional.
I agree whole heartedly that once he accept Christ and are in His Kingdom that we should do everything possible to avoid sin in any form. Can we obtain that level? No, I think it is impossible. Does that mean we stop trying? Absolutely not! We should always strive to be Christlike. But we are broken vessels that cannot make it to His level without the intervention of Christ.
If we cannot obtain salvation except through a free gift from God then we cannot tarnish that gift by saying we can lose it and then “earn” it back by the way we act.
Just my thoughts and take on eternal security. Take care friend.
Romans 3:27 tells us: Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Galatians 2:16: Knowing that a man is not justified by the
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D(["mb","u003cb>worksu003c/b> of the law, but by the u003cb>faithu003c/b> of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the u003cb>faithu003c/b> of Christ, and not by the nu003cb>worksu003c/b> of the law: for by the u003cb>worksu003c/b> of the law shall no flesh be justified.u003cbr> u003c/div>nu003cdiv>Ephesians 2:8-10: u003cspan>8u003c/span>For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: u003c/div>nu003cp> u003cspan>9u003c/span>Not of works, lest any man should boast. nu003cp> u003cspan>10u003c/span>For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.u003c/p>nu003cdiv>John 10:27-29: u003cspan>27u003c/span>My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: u003c/div>nu003cp> u003cspan>28u003c/span>And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. nu003cdiv> u003cspan>29u003c/span>My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's handu003c/div>nu003cdiv> u003c/div>nu003cdiv>Ephesians 1:12-14: nu003cp> u003cspan>u003cspan>12u003c/span>That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. nu003cp> u003cspan>13u003c/span>In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, nu003cp> u003cspan>14u003c/span>Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.u003c/p>nu003cp> u003c/p>u003c/p>u003c/span>u003c/p>u003c/div>nu003cdiv>Ladies, we have only to look at the story of David to see that we can mess up big time and still keep our grace from God. He was an adulterer and as a result of that adultery, murdered a man who swore to protect him!! Yet, David was still considered a man "after God's own heart." Now, am I saying that we can just do what we want? No, of course not. We are to follow Christ to the best of our ability. But if we step out of line with Him and fall on our butt, He's not going to condemn us to hell. He's going to bring us back around. If we still want to sin, and have no desire to do God's bidding, then perhaps we should take a look at our hearts and see if we are truly saved. But once we are saved, we cannot be plucked from the hand of Jesus. Otherwise, it's not a gift. Otherwise it can be earned. Otherwise, Jesus came to die for nothing. n",1]
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works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Ephesians 2:8-10: 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
John 10:27-29: 27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand
Ephesians 1:12-14:
12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Just some more Scripture to consider for not being able to lose your salvation. Be blessed, friend!! (By the way… I agree with my dad above… LOL!)
sorry that’s all messed up. I hate HTML!!
PROOF-TEXTING ALERT
ha ha, I love ya bro – but proof-texting is not the way to get your message across. As a Christians for many years (8-24 now), I would have to say that backsliding is not only possible but it does exist. However, I do think there is a difference between backsliding and completly turning your back to your faith and God (or eve outright denying God). There is the Christian who is trying to be closer to God but sins and then the Christian who is not trying to be closer to God and sins. I think the internal attitude of the heart has a lot to do with things.. and that no one judges ones heart, integrity, holiness, and purity like God does. All we can do is try to encourage others to follow God (and follow God oursleves). I do admit, hwoever, that I have sen a few exception where some “backsliding Christians” I would say probably were never Christians to begin with because their life never changed, some never even tried. They might have felt “bad/sad” that they were bad or sinful but never seemed to actually do or try anything to change it – in those cases I would say they were never saved (so Once saved always saved is correct and salvation by grace/faith alone as well).
Daniel (doubledb)
Faith and Deeds – James 2:14-26
14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. 19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend. 24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone. 25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
Made Alive in Christ – Ephesians 2:1-10
1As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. 4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Daniel and Derek,
I do not deny that backsliding exists. I’ve seen it happen. In fact, I’ve personally experienced it.
However, the bible very clearly tells us we cannot lose our salvation from backsliding. In fact, many of the verses you gave me, Derek, only solidified that Jesus keeps us in His arms always… not tested that. I think we have to be careful to see who is being spoken to and in what context. Jesus makes it clear that while faith without works IS dead, faith comes first, works second. We cannot base our salvation (either attaining or keeping it) on works because then we’d be able to boast. Does this mean I want to just go off and do what I want? No… I follow Christ to the best of my ability. But if I screw up and sin, I am not afraid that I’ve lost my place in heaven, because I’m eternally sealed. Jesus, Himself, said that NO ONE can pluck me from His hand… that includes me.
One thing you should think is… if someone is continually sinning and doesn’t want to turn from that life, maybe they should take a good look at their heart and see if it’s really right with God. Because there’s a good chance it’s not.
I’m afraid this lie that satan has planted that we can “lose” what Jesus has freely given us is a real danger to Christians. I know the fear of it shook me up for a while. But the fact of the matter is, every single person falls short of grace. It’s only through Jesus, and nothing we can do on our own, which gets us into heaven.
Much love in Christ!!
”I do admit, hwoever, that I have sen a few exception where some “backsliding Christians” I would say probably were never Christians to begin with because their life never changed, some never even tried. They might have felt “bad/sad” that they were bad or sinful but never seemed to actually do or try anything to change it – in those cases I would say they were never saved (so Once saved always saved is correct and salvation by grace/faith alone as well).” -doubledb
i agree with him, especially that part
The free gift argument is old and is using mans logic.Even though many decry it God gave us thought as well as revelation. I find it interesting how people who believe in eternal security seem to have to explain away so many scriptures. If these are figurative or refer to something else it seems the authors would have been clearer. Just like God is faithful when we are faithless and God will denie those who denie him this is perfectly liogical. I have never liked this but historically and scripturally I can’t argue with it.
Indeed satan use it to get us to focus on works or make men think they have passed the point of no return or are too evil. As for sin we all agree Christ has paid the price.The distinguishing mark of a Christian is the Spirit. Since it is the Spirit which woos us if we are able to truly repent in accordance with heavenly nature then we know Christ has not left us. If we offend the very seal and intermediary how can we be brought back?
I do not know at what point this could happen but I know God has handed unbelievers over to hardened and perverse hearts could this not happen to us. Lucifer himself fell from heaven and he was created right with God.
I think the problem in both cases is a lack of the fear of God. If we really feared and reverenced God the way we should, we would live right. This is not because we fear losing our salvation…. and if we really knew God we wouldn’t excuse our sins and say “Hey Y’all, that there grace is my free gift and I intend to spend every penny!”
No, God has never let me get away with that type of mentality. God gives us the grace/power to live right. It’s not by my own power or strength, but that ability is a gift from God. Therefore, I can and should live rightly, but because God is the one who gives me that ability, I can never boast about it.
^^ Chanda, I don’t live my life as “Hey, it’s a free gift so I’m just going to live how I want!” I fear and reverence God. Not trying to be prideful but I would hope anyone who knows me knows that I do not feel that way. I strive to live for my Jesus. I strive to speak out for Him and I do the best I can with what God gives me. I have the Holy Spirit residing in me and I am convicted when I do wrong. I know I can do all things through Christ who strenghtens me. I’m honestly so sick of people telling me that the only reason I believe the way I do is so that I can live the way my flesh wants. That is SO untrue!
I just know beyond anything else that if I DO screw up I’m not going to lose my salvation. I fear God, but I don’t fear that He’s going to cast me into hell if I mess up, because His Word flat out tells me He won’t. It tells me that no matter what happens, I am sealed for eternity. So I don’t have to fear that I’m going to spend time in hell any longer. I will be corrected, probably punished, and then I’ll move on and learn from it. (By the way, I capitalize for emphasis, not because I’m yelling.)
Derek, I studied a lot of those Scriptures last night. Frankly, most of those say nothing about losing your salvation (I got through the Matthew Scriptures before we went to bed) and most even solidified my faith that I won’t. Like the sheep going astray is showing us that Jesus will come after us when we go astray… not that He’ll cast us into hell. I don’t want to argue this point. I feel it’s dividing the church and pulling us away from the Great Commission. I’m just as guilty so I’m going to stop after this. But I don’t think the problem stems from a fear of God. The problem stems from man’s logic. Man can’t grasp salvation being a free gift. Man thinks we have to DO something to get into heaven. Man thinks it’s up to US. That’s man’s logic. The free gift argument makes no sense to man… but works do. But it’s NOT by works. Works are important, and we’ll be rewarded for our works. But they are not what saves us. We can be saved by Jesus Christ, alone. And we can keep that salvation by Jesus Christ, alone. John 14:6. Y’all have a blessed day!! Love y’all, in Christ!
God is awesome! I am ironically working on this very subject (among many) so I will have some insight and encouragement for all believers in Christ…soon.
* Comment: In my studies, I have found that BACKSLIDING is only found in the Old Testament. And when the word is used, it is used in reference to the Jews, which were in a constant state of backsliding.
* Question: What does it mean to backslide? Simply put,it is the state in which someone falls into or returns to a continual life of sin.It is a place where the Fear of the Lord is far from ones eyes and their heart has forsaken Him and have turned to a life of lawlessness. (Read: Jeremiah 2:18-29)
So… the obvious question would be: Since we are in a different dispensation
(under grace) and the word Backsliding is not mentioned in the New Testament,can a Christian backslide?
Hi–I am too old to debate this again. When I was first saved, I debated a lot.
I don’t believe their is a single scripture in the entire bible that says, “If you put your faith in Jesus Christ and are born again, God will send you to hell if you sin afterwards.’
Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJV)
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance: seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Hebrews 10:26-29 (KJV)
For if we sin wilfully after that we have recieved the knowledge of the truth, THERE REMAINETH NO MORE sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for judgement and fiery indignation which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnessess: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing and hath done despite unto the spirit of grace?
I saw your wife’s comment on another site (w/a couple of scriptures from Hebrews) I am a pk and a preachers’s wife. I have done much studying on this and I KNOW there are a lot of scriptures that support that once saved always saved isn’t true. That would make God a dictator and us unable to change our minds–that is NOT the God I serve. We can accept His free gift–but we can also give it back if we so choose (esp by the lifestyle we live). I think believing you can’t loose your salvation, people give themselves permission to disobey God (even in a lot of small ways–still disobedience) and believe they are okay spiritually speaking–I just don’t believe that—anyway that is my two cents. Elizabeth
This is my beleif based on the scripture above and on my experience. I also think the Hebrews scripture that Chanda posted says it very well. Yes, it is impossible to renew someone who has tasted of the heavenly “Gift” (aka salvation) and has fallen away. Now ultimately God is the supreme judge, not me, and I cannot say whether someone else is going to hell or not, the Bible says you can tell from their fruit but that is besides the point. In my own walk with God I know that when I went to college and was away from home for the first time I “Backslid”. I got with the wrong crowd, I got high and drunk and I had an ungodly realtionship with a girl I met on campus. I am telling you that I know that if I died in my Sin I would have went strait to Hell, but the Holy Spirit convicted me. One day I was going to class, hungover, and there was a man outside my dorms passing out Gideon Bibles. I took one and thanked him, and the conviction of God fell on me so strong that I asked myself “What am I doing?” Shortley after that I dropped out of college, came back home, got a job at Honda and rededicated my life to the Lord. So that is my experience and I am very thankful to God for waking me up because I could have fell for the lie that the devil tells. “You love God and he is merciful so just keep on doing what your doing, his grace will cover you.” All that time the Mouth of hell was just opening wider and wider waiting for me to fall in. I am not telling you what to believe, I am just begging the question “Why do you believe what you believe?” I just want you to check your heart and make sure that you are blameless when you stand before the Lord on Judgement Day. I :heartbeat: all of you and want to see you in heaven.
Chanda, For if we sin wilfully after that we have recieved the knowledge of the truth…
You can recieve knowledge and not be saved… that does not say anything about being saved. It says, IF YOU RECEIVE THE KNOWLEDGE and then still willfully sin… two different things.
Again, I was capitalizing for emphasis.
Interesting, Shorty, that you made no comment on the first scripture that I listed. Surely that is speaking of a Christian who falls away. You can try and explain it away if you like, I’d be interested to hear how you do so.
I absolutely cannot lose my salvation. There is no doubt in my mind.