August 18, 2007
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The Prosperity Message II
I think that I just had an epiphany. Most of the time Pastors preach “Tithe, tithe tithe!” because they are afraid that they will not be able to pay the bills if the congregation doesn’t. All the while they are living off of it, and using it for that purpose and they are lucky if they have enough left over to give themselves. I hope you are following me. This is a result of what I was talking about before. Trusting or having Faith in Mammon, or Wealth instead of trusting God to supply all of our needs according to his riches in glory. God says give and it will be given unto you, pressed down, shaken together, running over. Did you know that 80% of the General Fund aka Tithes and offerings in the American Church go to buildings and grounds, and what is left over usually goes to the Pastor for his bills and for him to live on? Because of this, churches lots of times have people in the congregation in need of food, clothing or shelter and the Pastors hands are tied to help them without asking the congregation for more money. I feel that the system that we have is broken, and has been for a long time.
Anyone have any ideas on how to fix it?
How does the Pastor have money to tithe (assuming he ministers full time and doesn’t have a trade)?
This is just something that popped in my head, but what if we just met in our houses, and had church like in the book of Acts?
What if we used our money to actually do what Jesus said and feed, clothe, and shelter the widow, and the orphan, and the homeless ext?
Comments (10)
It would be absolutely revolutionary… it would breathe fresh life into the church… and drive all the ”religious” “church-goers” insane
I agree that some pastors preach to “tithe, tithe, tithe” for their own selfish gain. But many pastors preach it just because the Bible does teach that 10% of our earnings should go to the church. For example, my dad is a preacher, and he for his sermons, he doesn’t pick topics. He picks a book of the Bible and then preaches all the way through it without skipping anything. This way, he can’t be accused of picking topics that are helpful to him, or of picking topics to point fingers at certain congregation members. He actually doesn’t like preaching about tithes, because he fears people will get the same idea that you have here.
Greedy pastors are a problem, though. I definitely agree with ya.
Honestly, I think the system isn’t perfect. But there’s really only one good way to fix it, and this is just me. I could be wrong. The congregation needs to be MORE involved in the budget! When budget meetings happen at church, probably only a fraction of the congregation shows up. It’s the entire church’s responsibility to make sure that the money they are giving back to God is going where – through prayer – they feel it should go. That’s my opinion… take it with a grain of salt.
I don’t think that the pastors are necessarily GREEDY. In Derek’s blog, I think he was saying that the system is so broken that in an ordinary church (which averages around 100 people) even if every member gave tithes and offerings to the church it isn’t enough to pay the pastor a living wage. We believe in generousity, and pastors should make enough that they too can be generous…… and even if they don’t make enough, they should be generous anyway and God will bless them, even if their trade is pastoring a church.
Also in regard to the comment that the Bible teaches that the tithe should go to the church, that is simply a misreading of the scripture. In the old testament, 2/3 of the time the tithe was brought to the temple (for a feast) and eaten by the owner of it!! The other 1/3 of the time it was put into a community “storehouse” so that the ORPHAN, WIDOW, STRANGER, and the Levite would also have something to eat. Even in old testament times it wasn’t soley for the “priest” or the “ministry” of the temple, no, it was for the lives of all the needy in the community.
I myself was shocked when I actually read ALL the scripture has to say about the tithe.
Our church tithes and does very well, reaching out to people, funding other ministries and missions, paying the workers, and money left over. Perhaps teaching on tithing is in order for those churches who are suffering. Our pastor said that before he became a pastor he prayed to God for a gift of administration. Suffering churches may be not doing what God is wanting them to do, and may be overextending themselves or living way beyond their means. I cannot judge, but God does bless those who tithe. Jesus tithed, and tithing of 10% is far less than the Israelites tithed which was 23 1/3%. Of course part of that was used for travelling expenses to get them three times a year to the temple and provide the animals for sacrifice. In the Old Testament priests lived off of the tithes and offerings. But I bet that if you really examined those who give gifts and offerings and tithes, that the majority have not learned the benefits of tithing. Tithing is not to support the church, tithing is giving back to God what is already His, and setting it aside for Him. And he evel tells us in Malachi to test Him in this. We tithe and while we are not rolling around in money, our needs are met. I think that there are pastors on TBN and other places that pollute the teaching about tithing with their own needs, wants and greed. But done properly, it is a different story.
Heather
I am not saying we shouldn’t tithe. I am simply asking the question is God’s money going where he wants it to go? And if not should we take it into our own hands to feed, shelter, and clothe the orphan, and the widow or just go ahead and give it to those that you know are not doing that and pray that God changes their heart? Also I believe that everything that we have is God’s and we should be willing to part with any of it at any given time, especially if led to do so by the Holy Spirit. I think that 10% is a pretty liberal estimate of how generous God wants us to be. The Bible says that God loves a cheerful giver, and I agree that if you “Try” God in the Tithing arena as it says in Malachi, yes he will pour you out a blessing that you shall not have room enough to recieve.
What I was trying to say about the brokeness of the Church in America goes way beyond more than just the tithe. Maybe I will get more into this in a later blog I don’t know. But anyhow on the subject of the tithe and doing God’s will with it, if we didn’t have loans on buildings and land, or huge mega churches that cost millions to build, and just met in each others houses, but still tithed, think of the stuff we could accomplish in the kingdom of God. I believe that if everyone did the right thing the way God wanted us too that there would not be any poverty. There would be no ”Third World Countries” If we shared that which God has blessed us with we wouldn’t need wellfare. But this is a fallen world and people don’t do what they are supposed to and most people get offended when you talk about changing the way things have always been done, at least in our generation. Now I am rambling, I just hope that my questions would cause some of you to think and maybe together we can figure out a way to accomplish God’s will on earth while we are here. After all that is part of our purpose right?
Honestly, we haven’t found a church home yet. So we tithe to places like the Rescue Mission here in town (Christian Homeless Mission) and the IMB and such. I think it’s important to tithe to your home church… but I also feel you just need to give back to God.
As for going over 10%, I so agree!!! I always give the 10% at least, no matter what. But I strive to give more if I can. I need to do better at that.
Tell me, have you ever heard these scriptures discussed in church? These are the original COMMANDS regarding tithe. (Tithe=1/10 of all your crops, herds, flocks)
Deuteronomy 12:17 says “You are not allowed to eat within your gates the tithe of your grain, or new wine, or oil, or the first-born of your herd or flock, or any of your votive offerings which you vow, or your freewill offerings or the contribution of your hand.”
(Here is a list of the things that were given to be holy unto the Lord.)
Great, so far, so good. Church theology teaches us not to touch our tithes and offerings, but to give them to God (aka the church). But what about the very next verse, 18. How do we interpret this in the light of what our churches teach?
“But YOU shall eat them before the Lord your God in the place which the Lord your God will choose, you and your son and daughter, and your male and female servants, and the Levite who is within your gates; and you shall rejoice before the Lord your God in all your undertakings.”
Also here is a specific tithing scripture found in Deuteronomy 14:22
“You shall surely tithe all the produce from what you sow, which comes out of the field every year. And YOU SHALL EAT in the presence of the Lord your God, at the place where He chooses to establish His name, the tithe of your grain, your new wine, your oil and the first born of your herd and your flock in order that you may learn to fear the Lord you God always. And if the distance is so great for you that you are not able to bring the tithe, since the place where the Lord you God chooses to set His name is too far away from you when the Lord your God blesses you, then you shall exchange it for money, and bind the money in your hand and go to the place which the Lord your God chooses. And you may spend the money in your hand and go to the place which the Lord your God chooses. And you may spend the money for WHATEVER YOUR HEART DESIRES; and there YOU shall eat in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice, you and all your household. Also you shall not neglect the Levite who is in your town for HE HAS NO PORTION OR INHERITANCE AMONG YOU.” (The tribe of Levi was given NO LAND in Israel.)
Verse 28 “At the end of every THIRD year you shall bring out all the tithe of your produce in THAT year, and shall deposit it in your town. And the Levite, because he has no portion or inheritance among you, and the alien, the orphan and the widow who are in your town shall come and eat and be satisfied, in order that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hand which you do.”
What I have understood these things to mean is that God called them to bring these offerings and tithes to the temple and EAT them. In the third year they were to bring them to share with the Levite, widow, orphan and alien. (This is the context to which the Malachi scripture should be read. “Bring all your tithes into the storehouse” Is not a command for the church to spend the money on buildings and grounds. It is ”So there may be FOOD in my house” The “store house” was for the poor (including the Levite).
That is exactly what I was trying to say. I just didn’t know where that particular scripture was at. That kind of puts a spin on things huh? :spinning:
Your epiphany has been experienced by thousands across the nation who are meeting as house churches and giving to other Christians in need around the world. Yeah, those Deuteronmony scriptures don’t show up in many sermons.
Look also to the New Testament (so many verses here that show God’s will in this matter, so I’ll just give a few..) 2Corinthians Chapters 8 and 9 give wonderful direction on giving, which was to help Christians in need from other places. A couple verses in particular : “Our desire is not that others might be relieved while you are hard pressed but that there might be EQUALITY. At the present time your plenty will supply what they need, so that in turn their plenty will supply what you need. Then there will be equality” (2Cor 8:13-14) So, yes, if we were all doing what we were supposed to, our Christian brothers and sisters in Africa and Asia would not be starving while we have coffee and donuts before church service in our multimillion dollar building in America.
“This service that you perform is not only supplying the needs of God’s people but is also overflowing in many expressions of thanks to God. Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, men will praise God for the obedience that accompanies your confession of the gospel of Christ, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else.”(2Cor9:12-13)
This verse is nearly verbatim the letter I got about a year ago from a sister in Christ in Kampala, Uganda. Since switching to home church, we have been blessed to support a Christian school in Kampala that takes in orphans, providing them with food, clothing, medical care, a school building, books and teachers salaries. Our monthly giving, which was a drop in the bucket at our megachurch, is able to go so far in Uganda, providing daily food for 400 orphans and their teachers, rent on their school building and teacher’s salaries. Her letter went on to say “The village trembles to see what the Living God has done for us!” Hundreds of people from the local area are flocking to this school and church, giving their lives to God, as they see the evidence of His love, that these children have not been abandoned. Amazing, following the example of the first century church brings the fruit seen by the first century church:)
Other verses: Acts 2:42-47, Acts 4:32-35, Matthew 17:24-26, Matthew 15:29-37