May 28, 2007
-
Creation vs. Evolution, What do you believe?
Is the Doctrine of Christianity more Valid than the Doctrine of Atheism?
So here is my stance:
I don’t have any evidence against God’s existence,
but that doesn’t mean I should therefore, believe in God.
We should only believe in something when there are evidence for it,
and this is why I opened this entry.
So far, I haven’t found any evidence for God,
but since there are billions are believers,
surely, there are some evidences, right?
So please leave your thoughts here.ToothFairyAgnostic:
http://www.xanga.com/ToothFairyAgnostic/592107738/is-the-doctrine-of-christianity-more-valid-than-the-doctrine-of-atheism.html?nextdate=lastThis was my response:
The doctrine of Christianity as well as the doctrine of Atheism, both are a religion. You have to have FAITH to believe both of them. I believe that there is STRONG evidence for Christianity unlike evolution etc., however. For instance, archeologists believe that they have really found Noah’s Ark http://www.pilgrimpromo.com/WAR/ . Also, most of the ancient sites talked about in the Bible actually exist, except for a few like Sodom and Gomorrah because DUH!! God really did destroy them. There is a good book called “The case for Christ” by Lee Strobel. You should read it, it talks about all of the evidence that supports the Case for the Bible and Jesus, from a Non- Believers standpoint. I think the guy actually got saved as a result of trying to prove that there was no God. I believe in Creation Science, if you want to know what that is watch this video : http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=dc3308584dce7afa3661 or go to : http://www.drdino.com to find out more. I believe in the Bible and in God, because when I was 15 years old the convicting power of God came into the basement bedroom of my parents house as I watched Billy Graham on TV and I knew in my heart that I was a sinner guilty of hell. That night the Power of God (The Holy Manifestation of his Presence) that Moses talked about, came into my room; and I fell to my knees and asked Jesus Christ into my heart. From that day forward I have always known………………………HE IS REAL………So, what does that mean for you?
and, The whole point I was saying is that most of the Scientific Evidence that is found proves that the Bible is true. There is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER to prove that Evolution is true, or the Big Bang. It is a theory in which can not be proven, which in my opinion makes it a Religion. I think it takes more Faith to believe that there is no God than to believe that there is one. Creation itself points to the Creator. I think that the REAL REASON people choose not to believe in God is because if he really exists, and the Bible is really true then we cant act like monkeys, and do whatever we want because it is SIN. Everyone knows that according to the Bible we are all going to be judged, and if we have not accepted Jesus Christ as the sacrifice for our sins and REPENT (or turn away from them and become HOLY, or RIGHTEOUS), then we are going to go to HELL. Aka The Lake of Fire, aka a place of outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, and eternal torment. If you are right and there is no God then I say this, at least I treated people good, at least I helped others, at least I feel good about the way I lived my life. Can you say that? If not, just ask yourself, what if I am right?
About creation and evolution, I disagree that the conflict is unnecessary myself, because I believe that the Theory of Evolution and the Big Bang are part of the cause of unbelief in the Bible. If you believe that we are here by happenstance, or that we Evolved from monkeys then that means we are not accountable by God for SIN and can act like animals if we want to. I believe that the Bible is a Factual, Literal, History book that is written by Holy men as they were moved upon by the Holy Spirit not a STORY BOOK or a POEM and that it is good for exortation, for rebuke, and for teaching.
FACTOID: The word Universe is made up of two parts (uni-verse)
Uni = One
Verse = Spoken Sentence.
So then Universe is a single spoken sentence. Sounds like the Bible to me.
God spoke and bang it happened.
My question to you is, if the Big Bang really happened Where did all the matter come from? Or how did it start spinning. Where did the energy come from? This thinking contradicts the Laws of Nature.
Laws of Thermodynamics: Energy exists in many forms, such as heat, light, chemical energy, and electrical energy. Energy is the ability to bring about change or to do work. Thermodynamics is the study of energy.
First Law of Thermodynamics: Energy can be changed from one form to another, but it cannot be created or destroyed. The total amount of energy and matter in the Universe remains constant, merely changing from one form to another. The First Law of Thermodynamics (Conservation) states that energy is always conserved, it cannot be created or destroyed. In essence, energy can be converted from one form into another. (developed by Dr. John Pratte, Clayton State Univ., GA) covering thermodynamics.
Comments Please? I think I’m going to leave this post up for a week or so, that way everyone has a chance to get in on the controversy.
To view “The way of the Master” parts 1,2,&3 a documentary about Evolution starring Kirk Cameron click on the links below.
1. http://youtube.com/watch?v=rHTN8Re1izg&mode=related&search=
2. http://youtube.com/watch?v=EGh48yt4flI&mode=related&search=
3. http://youtube.com/watch?v=ohCDWDsUefk&mode=related&search=
Here is some Historical Evidence of Jesus Christ outside of the Bible click this link to read more:
Comments (38)
Thanks.
good stuff
Daniel (doubledb)
“The whole point I was saying is that most of the Scientific Evidence that is found proves that the Bible is true. There is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER to prove that Evolution is true, or the Big Bang.”
sigh… this is going to sound rude, but quite the opposite is true, regarding evolution and the big bang that is…
even doing a search on wikipedia, and you’ll see both are backed my tons of evidence.
with regards to the bible, i assume when you said scientific evidence show that the bible is true,
you mean that some places mentioned in the bible do indeed exist, but that hardly is enough to show
that everything in the bible is true.
for example, we have no evidence that these miracles occured, we have no evidence that moses or abrahan or adam and eve, or various other important figures ever lived. whether jesus existed or not is still disputed among scholars.
NO scholars would ever take the bible seriously as a history book, trust me on that one.
“I think it takes more Faith to believe that there is no God than to belive that there is one.”
why wouldn’t it take faith to believe that santa clause and toothfairies and invisible pink unicorns dont exist?
whatever you say, apply it to GOd, and it would work beautifully.
“I think that the REAL REASON people choose not to believe in God…”
that is very wrong, i dont believe in God because there’s no evidence for his existence.
and look, the whole thing about sins and such, what other other religions?
you are only preaching the christian god because you happened to be brought up in usa.
lots of ppl do believe in God, but god in a different religion.
and other religious dont have the same concept of sin as christianity.
“at least I treated people good, at least I helped others”
That is super irrelevent, atheists are just as nice as christian,
what an assumption to say that atheists are less nice …
“what if I am right?”
Again, there is no reason to pick on the christian god, you only picked the christian god
because of the sheer accident of being brought up in a christian nation.
what if YOU’RE wrong about islam? then you’re in big trouble.
and on a less serious note, what if you’re wrong about the flying spaghetti monster,
what if you’re wrong about toothfairies, what if you’re wrong about Zeus?
thanks for the pointer Derek. I usually try but forget.
hey dude, you brought some interesting scientific points, while im no expert in physics,
i read articles that explain these puzzling questions, this might not answer every point you made, but here goes:
It has actually been observed that at the quantum level, that particles often pop in and out of existence
the theory is that these particles actually “borrow” energy, and then created itself, and it would
return energy by disappearing. It has been calculated by cosmologists that the total energy in the universe
is actually 0. This implies that perhaps the universe merely borrowed energy to create itself, thus,
no energy nor matter were created.
that probably wasn’t a very satisfying answer, but you could do a simple goodgle search, and you’ll find
a lot better explanations on how the universe could come into existence without breaking the laws of thermodynamics.
also, the formation of our universe does not break the law regarding entropy either,
our universe is actually expanding faster than the local reduction in entropy, meaning
entropy could actually decrease as long as entropy increase somewhere else, and that somewhere else
is the expansion of universe, and as a whole, the universe’s entropy as a whole is actually increasing.
of course, none of these answer may satisfy you, it might not have even answer your challenges,
if that’s the case, please respond back with some more specific problems how the universe could be without God.
I’ll finish this off with a mind-stopper:
These Laws of Thermodynamics are only laws made based on the observations we could make on the matter we could test,
however, the very beginning of the universe is a state that is very very different from the state now,
the beginning of the universe is infinitely hot, and infinitely dense, and it’s quite possible that these laws don’t work out in a pre-universe condition. similiarly, the ideal gas law operate beautifully on the properties of gas, however, at extreme conditions, the idea gas law becomes more and more inaccurate.
lastly, these laws of thermodynamics are derived from matter that already exists, and before the universe came into being, there were no matter, and at that condition, it’s very reasonable to speculate that laws of thermodynamics don’t apply.
Response to ToothFairyAgnostic’s last paragraph posted at 11:57PM
How do you know about the beginning of the universe, that it was infinitely hot and dense? There is no proof of this. Your belief about the beginning of the universe is just that; a belief and not a scientific fact. It takes just as much faith to believe that the whole universe was infinitely dense 20 billion years ago as it does to believe that God created it. There are no witnesses of the event. In your case, you have to rely on speculation. In my case, I rely on the Bible. In both cases this is just a belief.
This is aside from any debate regarding evolution. What I am saying, is that whatever anyone thinks about the very beginning of the universe, nobody really knows.
very good response.
One form of evidence, is if God is infinite, he has never changed, what he did in the past he can do again under the same conditions.
So if God healed in the Old Testament, and during the gospels, and under the apostles ministry then it follows from an unchanging God that he should still be in the healing business.
So then there should be documented miracles out there.
Personally I have experience a miracles – one the change in my heart. I used to drink, not heavy but it had a hold of me. I never quit drinking, and I don’t drink now. Why? God took the very desire out of my heart in a moment’s time some 24 years ago.
Another is the miracle of salvation. My thought pattern and views have changed.
Another time when hiking down a mountain, I jumped a log and landed straight leg, and extend the knee backwards – oww. Now I felt on my heart to witness to my friend on this trip about the gospel, and did. I tried mind over matter – absolute failure other than I did continue to walk.
My friend was getting furhter ahead, but then what could he do for me. I knew he would wait on the bicycles. Well I hit the trail back to the bikes, and on the trial thought
“Satan you have no right to do this to me, I felt on my heart to witness to my friend” within 10 paces I was walking without no pain or sign of injury. One more witness to my friend.
I have seen God heal my family members of some serious illnesses.
Now that’s just me, there are books out there with documented cases. People on the death bed, given up by the doctors and walking out totally healed.
Does it directly prove God? No. But can someone prove directly to me an electron, quark, electricity, photon, so on? No. Only indirect evidence.
To really prove God, and it’s only to one self is only by Faith. The evidence of things not seen.
But excellent point where did all this begin? How did it begin? and according to the laws of Physics, energy goes from highest order to lowest order. How can randomness make order? I have yet to see the automobile self evolve – seems to me man (hightest order animal and most God like) evolves it. How about computers as smart as we make them, there is yet to be one that designs another one and make it (we can give it all the necessary hardware and software). It takes something more inteligent to make something better.
If randomness where the thing, then we better find it, and man what a deal we could harness. Oh by the way I do have a degree in Honours Physics and did learn about Thermodynamics. Entropy is the final state. Yet evolutionists go contrary to this.
In a nutshell: Big Bang and consequent evolution is a theory on HOW it was done. Creation(ism) is a theory on WHO did it.
There is no necessarily a conflict. Not for me at least, because I do not take the genesis tales literally but as inspired poetry, but that’s me.
Amongst the “family”, there is much vebal conflict between literalists and t”liberals.”. Most of the arguments I see on the Web seem to be over Old Testament interpretation, with the often open assertion that those who disagree with one ‘side’ or the other, is a heretic. Surely, what is essential for a Christian is ”Christ and Him crucified”? There is enough there to keep people intellectually and spiritually occupied. What does it matter if, for example, the creaton took six “days” and God was then actually tired and took a rest, or whether creation took millions of years. Being eternal, the time would hardly matter to God, surely.
What I mean to say is that such arguments are a red herrings that deflect from the essentials. What are the essentials? Now that’s a worthwhile question.
Hey buddy, thanks for visiting the blog.
I realy liked what you posted – and that UNI – VERSE stuffs great. I never heard that before.
May Jesus bless you and keep you under his blood.
Boris
In response to Lovegrove.
Talking about such things as Evolution, The Big Bang and other stuff has sometimes led to the sharing of my testimony, and possibly the conversion of others. That why I dont mind talking about it. Thanks for your comments.
Universe- one word, great argument. Great selection of songs as well. God Bless
Ren
hey, I checked out the video you sent me
unfortunately, the moment I saw Hovind’s name, I lost my interest.
http://youtube.com/results?search_query=Kent+Hovind+critical&search=Search
check out those videos on the critical analysis of several of his seminars,
and you’ll see he’s fulled of scientific bs.
Response to Toothfairyagnostics 3:30Pm post:
I did watch the Critical Analysis video of Kent Hovinds “The Age of the Earth”, and that is exactly what it is. I dont really think that it discredits him at all, he does not claim to be an “Expert”. The fact that he doesn’t talk about Evolution much in the First video doesn’t have any thing to do with it. He has a series of about 7 videos in which he does talk about Evolution, including MICRO vs. MACRO Evolution. Perhaps you should go to http://www.drdino.com and order the whole set, or invite him to have your own debate. I dont think name slandering is cool.
i dont think he would want to debate with a 16 year old, rofl
I really enjoy your post. Radical and thoughtful at the same time. Keep posting.
great stuff
God bless
Wow, I find it amazing that Cameron and Comfort made a video about evolution!
watch this debate:
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Story?id=3148940&page=2
The video plays at the upper right corner, it was a debate between them and two other guys,
they talked about evolution, and that’s why I know those 2 guys have absolutely no understanding of
what evolution is about.
They believe that we came about by completely random chance, they said it in the debate
and now they are saying it in the youtube video you posted, however, that is just a complete
misunderstanding of evolution. Evolution is systematic, it’s not random, it’s caused
by very orderly nonrandom natural selection.
I find the video very upsetting, interviewing people that have NO UNDERSTANDING of evolution either,
why didnt they interview scientists I wonder? If they had interviewed anyone
that has some scientific knowledge of evolution, they wouldn’t be able to produce it.
THis video is totally deceiving.
I see that at one point, they interviewed this guy who supposedly have a phd in biology.
anyways, he said “the problem we have in the beginning”
But the question of how life arose from nonliving thing is not in the field of evolutionary biology.
abiogenesis is actually totally another field of study,
and if they had interviewed someone in that field,
an expert in abiogenesis could present a bunch of possible models for how life
could possibly come from nonlife.
I really like your site.. but honestly im getting annoyed when i keep refreshing my subscirption page to see new blogs and you have once again updated your time and so its there again and again and again. If people are interested then they will comment.. or you could leave a link at the end of a new post welcoming people to the discussion (to continue it or join)). I dont know, it just annoys me a tad.
Daniel (doubledb)
I think my connection to your site just evolved. I got in at last. Now I’ll leave without saying anything substantial.
)
To Daniel (doubledb) My apologies, I usually only update the time when I edit this particular post, but I will keep that in mind. I did not mean to offend or annoy anyone. Thanks for the feedback.
Respone to Toothfairyagnostic’s 10:14Pm Post:
I did watch ALL OF THE VIDEOS on the Video link you left:
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Story?id=3148940&page=2
In watching all of the videos (Yes, there were more than one, again.), I did find plenty of the arguments that Kirk and Ray made to be credible, however they obviously are EVANGELISTS and not SCIENTISTS. Brian and Kelly however, lack some much needed facts, like their missing transitional fossils. They obviously did not know that there is more historical evidence that Jesus Christ existed, than evidence that Aristotle existed. I felt that both parties seemed unprofessional, or lacking in the expertise needed to have a SCIENTIFIC debate, therefore not changing my opinion that GOD DOES EXIST. I still think that Kirk and Ray have a good thing going with “The Way of the Master.” in that they are winning thousands of people to the Lord.
haha, i TOTALLY agreed with you when you said both sides were unprofessional.
I was very disappointed indeed by the whole debate.
Although you believe that the atheist side had some good points,
I thought they didnt.
would you respond back, stating which arguments they had that you thought were good?
Although you believe that the atheist side had some good points,
I thought they didnt.
would you respond back, stating which arguments they had that you thought were good?
No, I was talking about Kirk and Ray having some good points, not the Athiests. The good points were what I already stated………..That they have no transitional fossils.
sorry, i meant the theists*
And didnt they say you can find transitional fossils in this museum?
:heartbeat::heartbeat::heartbeat::heartbeat: Derek, I am so impressed with your thoughts and research on this subject. Thank you for approaching it with factual issues as well as personal experience. You have such a heart of compassion for others, and your love for Jesus is SO evident in your everyday life. Thank you for not being afraid to tackle it from more than one direction. These are some of the reasons I am the luckiest woman on the planet! :heartbeat::heartbeat::heartbeat::heartbeat:
Yes, the atheists said that. But it is a fact that they have never found a transitional fossil anywhere, ever. There are no new species. Plus there is no evidence of one species evolving into another species. That is what we refer to as MACRO EVOLUTION. We do have variations within a species which I like to call ADAPTATION, which is actually MICRO EVOLUTION. That is all Evolutionists ever want to talk about because there is no proof for MACRO EVOLUTION. Dogs, still produce Dogs. Humans still produce humans. Plants still produce plants. That is what the Bible calls every living thing reproducing after its “kind”, that is a FACT and that is what I believe.
HI Derek, thanks for visiting and commenting in my xanga site. Intellectually and academically you are way over my head, and I thank God you are hear to answer the tough questions. If an atheists shows up at my place, I am sending him to you.
God bless you,
Frank
i like ur playlist
God’s existence is as irrifutable as your ownIf our heavenly Father is leading you to answer some of the objections of unbelievers while doing your duty to share the Gospel with them, I encourage you to study the following facts.
They will give you the logical moorings from which to frame your discussions AND AVOID being pulled into agreeing with the presuppositions of the unbeliever.
Please give me some feedback if you are so inclined.
1) Consciousness occurs in and thinking takes place by a human being in the present (an aspect of time).
(The act of thinking and that which is thought about do not occur in the same time)
2) The content of the act of thinking (what is thought about) is always that which has occured in space and is past.
(You cannot think about the sensory experiences that define the present while being in that present because according to our mental limitations they exist in time in distinct stages.
3) The act of thinking always imposes the limitation of space upon (or gives being to) that which is it’s content.
(You cannot think about something that is without sensory limitations)
4) Experiencing the sensory limitations imposed on you by another person occurs only in the present and can never be duplicated through audio or video or any other form of sensory dupication.
(You could show me a video containing every moment of another person’s life as well as the way they sounded and smelled, tasted and felt but it would never be able to give me the same experience of that person that I would gain by being in that person’s presence for just one second)
5) In the same way, to know about God (making revealed sensory limitations the content of your act of thinking) is not the same as knowing Him by having experienced the sensory limitations that meeting Him in the present imposes.
(Who would show such a lack of discernment to propose that watching films of one’s dead grandfather is the same kind of “knowing” that one would have of him if he were present with one now, holding one in his arms?)
6) It is impossible to say that you “know God” until you have had your senses imposed upon by Him in a present tense, person to person (or o borrow the phrase from theologian Martin Buber’s book of the same title) or an “I and Thou” encounter.
The living, personal God and Father of my lord Jesus Christ, my heavenly Father, wants you to know that He cannot be said to not exist simply because you have read His revelation in the Bible (learned about Him) and have decided that it is all a lie any more than you can say that I do not exist just because you have not met me face to face.
Amen. God is more than the here and now. He is the Alpha and the Omega. The Beginning and the End. I think that it is mortally impossible to experience all of God’s presence
hence the Bible says no man shall see his face and live. We cannot experience all of God, at least here on earth, in the flesh. We have to take off this curruption and put on incurruption.
Hi Derek :wave:
Great post..I agree with you on this topic. :sunny:
idk if you searched it up before, but here is a list of transitional fossils
http://www.holysmoke.org/tran-icr.htm
http://www.holysmoke.org/tran-icr.htm
:rolleyes: I read your list. Once again, only examples of MICRO evolution. Not MACRO evolution. That doesnt prove ANYTHING. There are still NO examples of one new species evolving into another species. Keep looking.
http://www.holysmoke.org/tran-icr.htm
you said that they show microevolution,
but microevolution refers to the different variations within a species like
we have different types of dogs, <———(Exactly)
but the list i presented to you has fossils
from fish to amphibians
amphibians to reptiles
reptiles to mammals
reptiles to birds <———–(That is Kathleen Hunt’s Opinion)
I just picked this one as an example to explain what I mean.
“Toothed Cretaceous birds, e.g. Hesperornis and Ichthyornis. Skeleton further modified for flight (fusion of pelvis bones, fusion of hand bones, short & fused tail). Still had true socketed teeth, which are missing in modern birds” Quote of Kathleen Hunt.
In my opinion this is not an example of a bird transitioning into a Dog for example (or anything else other than a bird), which would be MACRO evolution, but it is an example of a bird ADAPTING to its enviornment or MICRO evolving to have teeth. It is not a new species. It is still a bird. Just a bird with teeth. There are NO TRANSITIONAL FOSSILS. To say that there are you have to fill in the gaps in your imagination. Just like the supposed transition from Ape to Man. No transitional fossils exist to say that we come from apes, but yet they still say we evolved from a monkey. They even teach it in the textbooks, but there is no proof. You just have to imagine it.
actually, you got one important key point backward.
Hesperornis and Ichthyornis are not examples of a bird to another species,
it’s an example of a reptile to a bird. The the teeth didn’t evolved to be there,
it’s the other way around, the teeth disappeared later, it “evolved away”.
Why would these early birds have teeth that just disappeared later?
What kind of creation is it? Why did God want to create birds with useless teeth?
The reason is because God didn’t create birds, birds evolved from reptiles.
That is why early birds have so many reptiles features, such as teeth.
In fact, the fossil of Hesperornis was mistaken as a reptile for a long time
until closer inspection at the skeleton structure.
“Just like the supposed transition from Ape to Man. No transitional fossils exist to say that we come from apes”
Are you sure? How do you define apes? When we look at our line of evolution leading up to us, we see a gradual change in skeleton structure, such as the gradual increase in skull size, showing the natural selection of smarter individual. In a way, we are still apes, we are just smart apes.
Posted 5/31/2007 7:58 PM by ToothFairyAgnostic
My Response: Maybe those particular birds, Hesperornis and Ichthyornis became extinct during the flood because they couldn’t find food. I am sure, that their teeth were used for something. You can believe that Birds evolved from reptiles if you want to, but I call that a Fairy Tale and would throw it in the garbage. Again, with the Ape thing you have to imagine it. When you have some HARD EVIDENCE, I will continue this discussion, but until then I’m done.
So then Universe is a single spoken sentence. Sounds like the Bible to me. God spoke and bang it happened
I LOVE that!! I use that a lot… In fact, it’s in a couple of my blogs.
When you say things like that there is no evidence of evolution or the big bang, you are basically saying “I know nothing about evolution and the big bang but what some kent hovind told me” (which isn’t true btw).
Did you know the big bang theory was proposed by a christian? Did you know he was also a member of the clergy?
Creationist websites lie about science, what they do is much more like political spin than science or philosophy.